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Circumcision

Japan With Kids - Forums: Health Topics: Circumcision
By Patrick Donoghue on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 7:31 pm:

Hi,
About to have a boy here in Tokyo and was wondering where we could get him circumcised. Asked our doctor and he wasn`t too sure where to get it done. Any suggestion would be much appreciated. Thanks.


By Shanti Ariker on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 8:18 pm:

There is a doctor at Tokyo Medical and Surgical called Dr. Fuji who has a lot of experience, according to my OB. The number there is: 03-3436-3028. There is also a doctor at Sanno hospital but I don't have his name. My OB recommended to wait until the baby is 8 days old before doing it.


By Patrick Donoghue on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 10:56 pm:

Thanks for the Info Shanti. Will try it out. Cheers


By Tokio on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 11:50 pm:

If you have Japanese Insurance, definitely Dr. Matsufuji of St. Luke's is one of the best. 03-3541-5151
Consult first and ask if your boy is qualified for the coverage.


By Penny Poe on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 10:11 am:

My son was circumcised three years ago by Dr. Fuji at Tokyo Medical. It was rather barbaric and I cried the whole time. The cost was 57,000yen and he did a great job. I highly recommend Dr. Fuji. He has also circumcised many of my friends babies and I have heard no complaints.

Good Luck.


By Janine Boyd on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 12:08 pm:

It seems unnecessary to circumcise these days with correct hygiene practices and less hang ups about children touching their own bodies.

There are many websites in reference to this topic. My suggestion is to make sure you are well informed before doing this operation

As a teacher of young children for the past 17 yrs I have noticed that the trend tends to be away from doing this operation both here and in Australia. I cant comment on other countries. Check out this website. It's biased but interesting reading

Might make hasty people stop to think. http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/med-argu.htm


By Marta on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:28 pm:

There are plenty of people in this world who still operate under an enormous burden of hangups, including a large number of mothers who never teach either their female nor their male children about personal hygiene, even within "advanced western nations". So what seems to work among people who have less pronounced hangups (at least in certain spheres), may not work for the great majority (5 billion divided by 2?). For example, forskins that do not slip back properly occur in a high percentage of men, and lead to unsatisfactory sex later in adulthood. There are lots of men with this type of problem and too much embarrassment/ignorance/distrust of the doctor-patient relationship, etc. to do anything about it. The candor and honesty about intimate subjects allowed in some family cultures is not as wide-spread as some believe. And of course male (and female) circumcision is a necessity within some cultures. It's a highly sensitive topic for many. It's probably best just to stick to the where/how question, and assume that the discussion over whether or not circumcision is necessary has already taken place within the family seeking this information.


By Madonna Sharp on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 10:42 pm:

I would be interested to see the statistics that support the statement "forskins that do not slip back properly occur in a high percentage of men, and lead to unsatisfactory sex later in adulthood." Otherwise it is simply an ignortant, unfounded assertion. And "of course ...female... circumcision is a necessity within
some cultures." Necessity? Step forth the adult female volunteers for this "necessity"! Frankly I am offended.


By Westsan on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 8:38 pm:

Madonna,

Why dont you look it up yourself. That info is all across the internet and documented in books.

That and smegma are the only hygienic reasons for circumcision.

[My OB recommended to wait until the baby is 8 days old before doing it. ]

What is lesser know is that some research has found that boys that are circumcised are more assertive/aggressive.
The younger you do it the more so. But dont believe me... look it up yourself. But if you dont believe in Freudian psychology then it might be a hard pill to swallow but I spent long hours (yet very happy with my girl)


By bay hair on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 9:59 pm:

Im going to give my son a Circumcision. Are ther any hospitals in Nagoya. For you people who think it is mutilation, dont do it.
And here is a news flash. I do have the right. He will not remember and he will thank me in the future. Have you ever met one male who is mad at their parents for doing it? You seem a bit over board on the topic. I am thinking you were not, and are scrathing at your thing now.


By Caroline on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 12:02 pm:

While not wanting to take sides in this heated debate, I do wish to share one thought comes to mind regarding circumcision: I wonder how I would have reacted had my husband told me he had been circumcised at birth... I'm sure it would not alter my feelings for him, but I would probably feel uneasy about it. Would it not have an impact on intimacy?

BTW, there is no need to insult or blame people for having different views from our own...


By Kristen Kajiwara on Monday, July 4, 2005 - 5:19 pm:

I am having a baby boy in September and looking for a hospital/doctor to circumcise him, as our little local hospital does not perform the procedures. Is there any new and recent information or experience out there regarding recommended doctors and hospitals? My first son was born and circumcised at St. Luke's, but they said they will not perform the procedure on my second son who will be born in a different hospital. I am looking for practical info. if anyone has any, not a debate on circumcision in general. Thank you very much!


By Scott Hancock on Monday, July 4, 2005 - 5:59 pm:

I've noticed a handout with information on circumcision at Tokyo Medical & Surgical Clinic. www.tmsc.jp


By andrew319 on Monday, July 4, 2005 - 10:16 pm:

Concerning the circumcision topic... I think its mainly done (in the US) because of tradition. --- why else? Yes.. the medical reasons... but like Janine Boyd pointed out... hygene is less and less a problem.. --- I dont know thats just a suggestion... Kristen Kajiwara.. good luck on finding a place to get your son circumcised...


By Caroline A. on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 - 11:21 am:

Medical research has never been able to prove that there are any 'medical'/health benefits with circumcision.

In which case- they do perform this procedure through the Tokyo Medical Clinic.


By Kristen Kajiwara on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 - 8:09 am:

Hello and thanks to everyone for your helpful responses. I really appreciate it! After calling AMDA International Medical Information Center (03-5285-8086), I again learned about the Tokyo Medical and Surgical Center (03-3436-3028)and I spoke with Dr. Fuji there. He is in charge of circumcisions at the center and performs infant circumcisions before age 3 months. He does it under local anasthesia and the baby goes home right away. He was wonderful to talk to, in English even, and I am relieved to have sorted this issue out before my little one arrives. Thank you again and I hope this discussion helps others in the same situation! Have a great day! Kristen


By RL on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 8:19 am:

Kristen (& everyone else). Kristen, thanks for the info. you posted. Based on it and the other posts and research, I just had my newborn son circumcised by Fujii-sensei last week. My local pediatrician had no clue of a recommendation, and even tried to convice us it wasn't necessary. Again, w/o getting into a debate on circumcisions, it's really hard to just get a referral for the procedure.

Dr. Fujii was indeed extremely kind. He's a little older but had very, very steady hands. We witnessed the whole procedure. Most importantly, he's done hundreds of INFANT circumcisions. He used a local anesthetic as you said so that should sooth parents out there. My son cried like nobody's business but I think that was more from being naked, strapped down/immobilized and confused, than any sort of pain. The whole thing takes about 20 minutes or so. We were in and out in about an hour or so.

The location of TMSC is literally across the street from the Tokyo Tower. It is a clean, modern medical office. I think 100% of their patients/customers are expats. Indeed, every single patient when we were there was obviously an expat. They do not accept Hoken (Japanese Social Insurance), only select foreign private insurance policies (and of course, cash), and all their literature is written in English only. I'd say about half the doctors are foriegners, half Japanese. But all of their Japanese doctors have medical experience overseas, speak good English and some even other languages as well. A story; After the circumcision, they let us use an empty Dr.'s office so my wife could give breast milk and sooth him. I looked up and hanging there was a med school diploma from UCLA.. my alma mater! Pretty cool. When we called the first time, the nurse just put me through to Dr. Fujii w/o me even asking! Try getting that kind of service in America. Dr. Fujii is happy to speak with parents and answer any and all questions. Oh, BTW, when I called and told him my baby was 5 weeks old, he said he wanted to schedule the circumsion in the next 2-3 weeks at the latest. So, I don't know if there is some hard cap/age that he only does circumcisions, but it seems like it's definitely sooner than later.

The cost was 57,750 yen. A bit steep, but for the peace of mind of having an experienced surgeon who speaks fluent English, well worth it. After all, though minor, it is surgery!

My baby was calm on and off after the procedure. We drove and I totally recommend doing the same, or taking a taxi, if you can. It'd be hard carrying a bag full of baby stuff, and your screaming child on crowded trains and up/down train platforms. Underground parking is available at the hospital for, if I remember correctly, 250yen/half hour. Not bad.

Finally, a medical note for those parents who go through with it, wherever you have it done. After you take your baby home, you will get after-care instructions from the hospital. The most important thing in the instructions is to keep the area clean, and CRUCIALLY, to basically make sure the top-edge of the foreskin doesn't cling to the now exposed crown of the penis. This is tough b/c basically it will definitely already have sort of migrated back up and be semi-stuck by the time you're instructed to clean it (the day after the surgery).. so you MUST sort of peel it back the first time. It's hard though, heartbreaking, because it really hurts for the baby. But, gotta do it. BTW, this happening is totally normal. You'll have to apply more pressure than you think to do it and it's hard especially b/c you're baby will be bawling. But, if you don't (basically, stop b/c you can't stand to cause your baby pain) and leave it that way for a ling time, the foreskin will basically "heal" itself to the crown and then you have to have it unstuck by a doctor. Not cool.

Anyway, I read tons of circumcision sites (based in U.S.) and every single one recommended using vaseline (petroleum jelly) to keep the head of the penis from sticking to the diaper. It also REALLY, REALLY helps, again once you've taken the painful step of unattaching the foreskin to the raw, exposed crown the first time (the day after the surgery), from it reattaching again. It just lubricates everything. Well, the TMSC instructions don't mention vaseline. We asked Dr. Fujii about it and he said it wasn't necessary. He just says to use water to clean the area. But, we went ahead with the vaseline after cleaning the area, during every diaper change and bathing. The Mayo Clinic website recommends it so we decided to use it. http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=PR00040&bucket=staged

Anyway, hopes this helps others who are as lost as we were about getting this done in Japan. Good luck!


By Janine Parker on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 1:34 pm:

Perhaps the parents that have chosen to submit their little boys to this outdated practice could tell us why they still do it (with hard evidence please as I can't seem to find any).

It is strange to believe that nature has made a mistake that must be 'corrected'!!!
82% of the world's male population are not circumcised. And apparently only 1% of all men will ever need to be circumcised later for medical reasons.

This site has a good list of pros and cons. http://www.circumcision.org/advocates.htm}


By Anne Bergasse on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 2:22 pm:

Excellent reference, Janine.
I have often wondered why the practice is still done as well. There are enough compelling arguments in the document to convince most but the last paragraph gives-in my humble opinion - the best reason for not doing it.

"When circumcision is performed, it does not treat any disease, injury, or other health problem. Since there is no urgency to do it, it must be delayed until the child is old enough to make the decision for himself."

...freedom of choice. I have no doubt, that if young men were given the choice of whether or not to have this procedure done, this custom would quickly disappear.


By Scott Hancock on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 2:58 pm:

Janine/Anne-
Please respect the poster's request for "w/o getting into debate on circumcisions". It is not in the spirit of this board to attack somone's personal choice, when they are only seeking or sharing information.

The case against it has been well made in previous postings, so to further press it constitutes attacking a personal choice. They don't need to justify it here.

This atmosphere also discourages others from asking sensitive questions.

Thank you.


By Sunshine on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 3:21 pm:

Just and information.circumcision is perfomed in all the muslim countries.before getting mature all the men has to do it and it is done by the parents.when thier infants or till age the of 7


By RL on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 1:26 am:

Hello everyone. I don't mind the "anti-circumcision" posts at all. It's fine. It's a sensitive issue, sure. But, just remember everyone that in the end, it is a personal choice all parents have to make for themselves. But by continuing to harp on and cite all the evidence and research against the procedure, it seems as if you ASSUME we parents who decide to have the circumcision have NOT done this same thorough research for ourselves... like urging us to visit sites like circumcision.org will be some sort of revelation to us. That's patently condescending and honestly, rediculous. We've done the same research as you have, have visited the sites and read the articles.. and have just made a different decision than you. We respect your decision to not have it done.. it seems it's difficult for you to respect ours.

Anyway, like I first mentioned, without getting into a debate on the whole do/don't issue, I sincerely hope my post provided some detailed information for others who have decided to have it done and are in the dark like we were. I hope others who have other good experiences, especially in other parts of Japan, will share them here with other parents. The more information the better.

Take it easy everyone


By Kristen Kajiwara on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 8:37 am:

Thank you RL! I am relieved to hear about the positive experience you had with Dr. Fuji and thank you for the post-op tips. I am relieved to hear these good things about the TMandS Clinic as my baby boy is due to arrive very soon! Thank you for sharing the information. It is very helpful! @

For Janine and the other nay-sayers against circumcision, why do you care so much about what other people do? You have a certain opinion and have made decisions based on this opinion. Other people hold differing opinions, and make different choices. That is life! That is democracy! Why do you care so much what personal choice people make about their own and their families' healthcare? You may not believe circumcision has any medical benefits, but it certainly doesn't do any harm! My son, husband, brother, father, feel no ill effects from this procedure that was done on them when they were infants. You don't know my family or me, so why do you care what we do with our son's healthcare? Feel free to live with your decisions, and let other people make their own and live with them, please. eke!


By Anne Bergasse on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 9:23 am:

Point respected, Scott, RL and Kristen. Apologies to all who felt disparaged or discouraged from sharing information. That was not my intention, I meant merely to share my view.

I did not assume that the research was not done. Nor did it occur to me that a decision about surgery would ever be made lightly. My interest is in the violation of the rights of the child. This is one issue that never seems to be addressed in any documentation on this subject by the advocates. I'm geniunely curious about this because I once read about an organization of men who are trying to put the foreskin back through surgery. They felt that something valuable had been taken from them. Radical group?...perhaps but at the time I read it, it had never occurred to me that a man might feel this way as an adult. In my life circle, the norm was circumcision and it was simply a given that was not contested. In fact, to go against the norm was to be disparaged. When my son was born I went through this deliberation myself and found that there has been a decided shift in thinking and much more information that helped me to
make my choice.

In my defense, I honestly wanted to know why. We all understand that everything boils down to a choice thing. We have to assume that we are all making informed choices. Is it not possible to still ask why and hope for additional enlightenment?

This subject, is highly emotional and perhaps too personal, to be appropriate for discussion in this friendly board. I agree with Scott that the 'atmosphere' should not be discouraging. The
information shared on this topic was generous and needed. I don't want to discourage that.
anne


By Nancy on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 1:25 pm:

Here is a link to an article that appeared in Metropolis some time ago so I am not sure if the contact information is correct. His name is Dr. Hertsel Simantov. He practises oriental medicine and performs circumcisions. metropolis.co.jp/lifeinjapanarchive299/281/lifeinjapaninc.htm


By Janine Parker on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:45 pm:

To be honest I am surprised that a few statistics and a personal belief about nature would incite such emotion. I really thought (after reading about the operation) that the parents have chosen to do this feel very strongly about it and have good reasons for doing it and would not be so easily disturbed
(and perhaps tell me I should have had my son circumcised becauseE)

The views on this discussion are very different to my peers. When my son was born I did not even consider getting him circumcised and none of the women I knew did either. We all just considered natural to be best. After reading the discussion on this website I searched the web trying to understand why it was started and was still practised. Anyway I failed to find a decent answer in my opinion. I really just wanted to know why people choose to have their sons circumcised. Perhaps there was something about it I did not know about.

The website I mentioned was not intended for parents who have already had the procedure done, but for those who are still deciding and are curious like myself. I also looked at a few more websites including the American Academy of Pediatrics website as I assume it is well respected.

To Kristian there are many families and people I don't know, but I still care about what they do and may have different opinions from them. That goes for everthing from caring about the environment, access to education and healthcare, and a million other issues. I am sure most of us care about people we don't know.

Anyway I still dont know why people choose to have their sons circumcised. If no one wants to discuss this could someone please direct me to a good website. The day will come when my son will ask why some other boys penis looks different from his and I want to give him a decent, respectful answer rather than saying I dont know or trying to explain why his friend went through an operation as a baby but I don't understand why.....

Thanks


By Amanda Jones on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 9:28 am:

Janine,

As an American mom who decided to have her son circumcised I will try to give you the answer you are looking for. My decision was almost entirely based on the cultural preference toward circumcision that exists in the part of the US where I am from. I spent hours researching circumcision and I found there is no medical reason for it (other than some new research which shows that circumcised men might be at lower risk for STDs such as HPV).

I spoke with other moms and found that most of the women I know did choose to have their sons circumcised because they themselves would prefer a partner who is circumcised. I was concerned that my son would feel uncomfortable if his penis was different from other boys and at the time I couldnt imagine him growing up anywhere other than our home country.

An example of the cultural bias towards circumcision can be seen on an episode of the popular US sitcom Sex and the City. The four female stars discuss how disgustingEand grossEthey find uncircumcised men and a male character actually has a circumcision as an adult because so many women have shown displeasure upon seeing his intact foreskin. Of course I didnt base my decision on a television sitcom, but I wanted to show how common the preference towards circumcision can be in the US.

When my son was circumcised he was given pain medication and didnt even flinch during the procedure, although he did cry initially when his blankets were removed. Afterwards his penis was easy to care for and there was no infection. My positive experience with the actual procedure helped to make me feel that I had made the right choice for my child.

I am not an advocate for circumcision. I feel the decision to circumcise is a personal one that each family needs to make for themselves by taking the medical, cultural and religious factors into consideration. This may not provide an answer for your son but it might help you understand why some parents decide to have their sons circumcised.

Amanda


By Ggk.Nair on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:42 am:

Hi I am a mother of twin boys. I too read a lot about circumcision when they were small. Since they didn't get into any problems (like infection etc.) we didn't do it and they are perfectly fine now. Please do read about circumcision in this webpage which clearly says no to it. (The board of members and doctors are mostly jews)http://www.circumcision.org/
Based on a review of medical and psychological literature and our own research and experience, we conclude that circumcision is not advisable.
ggk

Note from Admin: Moslem religion also promotes circumcision. The preference for circumcision in the Jewish and Moslem religions is probably very old (older than the advent of Jesus and Mohammad). I read that it is not specifically mentioned in the Qur'an, but the Hadith records it as recommended by all past prophets. I also know that some parents that are ambivalent will finally choose based on pressure from grandparents. Definitely a personal decision. Please be considerate here.


By RL on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 3:50 pm:

Hello, this is to the website administrator. As this subject is obviously polarizing, I was wondering if it would be possible to divide the "Circumcision" topic into two topics - 1. "Circumcision: Physician Referral/Parent Experiences of having a circumcision in Japan" and 2. "Circumcision: Should you or should you not". I think that'd be great. I came to this site having already done all the research I'd ever need, and was purely looking for practical information like experienced Docs who performed the procedure in Japan or other parent's personal experiences of having it done in Japan, not a litany of personal opinions trying to guilt me into not having it done.

It seems like people like me who are just looking for some simple referrals are having to sift through more and more useless/unsolicited debate to find the nuggets of truly useful information we're really looking for. Don't get me wrong, the opinion section definitely has it's place but I think when people click on "circumcision" on a website called 'Tokyo with Kids', all they really want to know is a good doctor who'll take good care of their babies, or to hear from other parents who've had it done in Japan. I mean, let's say I've already decided to see a certain movie. I don't want to be forced to read through tons of reviews when all I really want to know is the showtimes. You know what I mean? Kristen, I'm with you.. YIKES!

When the topic "Circumcision" was created for this site, I highly doubt it was meant to serve as a forum for debate on whether or not parents should have their sons circumcised. People can do that in a dozen other sites specifically created for debate. As it's not performed on infants in Japan, this topic was CLEARLY created for parents living here who wanted to have their sons circumcised and were looking for a reputable, safe hospital/Dr. to perform it. Unfortunately, it's turned more into a soapbox than a source of practical information. For those who want to get on that soapbox, let's give them their own, rightful, disctinct place... which isn't here. THIS "circumcsion" link should be for parents helping other parents with USEFUL information.. as it was originally intended.

BTW, Kristen, best of luck with your delivery and your son's circumcision. You're in great hands with Dr. Fuji.


By Nancy on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 5:20 pm:

I second the proposal to the divide this topic. It's a pity that asking a simple question results in responses from those whose only interest is to pontificate on the subject. I suggest that any posts that are off topic and inflammatory should be deleted. For those of you who want to debate this topic, why not use your private e-mail?


By Janine Parker on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 6:36 pm:

Hi,

thanks Amanda for your honest and clear answer. I to saw the Sex and the City episode so I understand your concerns for your son.
Anyway, as it is declining in popularity in Australia I assume my son won't be alone as he grows up.

Best wishes to all the parents on this site and let's hope we have made the right descision for our son's individual situation.


By Admin on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 7:19 pm:

Lets say I have 10 minutes to fiddle with this. Is it better used to split up discussions or concentrating on stopping the spam attempts such as the post above

By Poker libre on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 01:40 am:

(which I have now deleted)?

I only have 2 hours a day budgeted for this web site. Please be reasonable with the discussions and with each other, and considerate in your requests to me.


By Ggk.Nair on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 11:39 am:

Extremely sorry to have bothered all of you with your precious time. ggk


By Joe Larsen on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 2:49 pm:

I kind of hate to add to this since I know you really don't want more posts, but the reason people continue to post on this is that many regard the question 'where to get a circumcision' done as akin to asking 'where can I get a good leather strop to use for training my toddler not to pee her pants.'

Saying it's a matter of "personal decision" and calling dissent "useless/unsolicited debate" is, I'm afraid, not enough to stop the concern of others and their desire to discuss it.
Just my two cents worth. Joe


By Admin on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 6:23 pm:

Exactly why it is useless to try to split the discussion into two parts. People will still post (wherever they please) if they want their two cents to be heard.

By the way, I am still working this site on my own with a bit of help from Scott. Is there anyone out there who wants to volunteer some time? I get about 25 "help me" emails per day on the discussions alone which take about 5 minutes average each to process. That's two hours right there. Those of you who have sent help emails and have not received an answer yet, I will get to you, but it doesn't hurt to send a second request.

In the meantime, if everyone could hang on to his/her passwords after registering, that would cut the help requests in half right there.


By RL on Thursday, September 8, 2005 - 12:08 pm:

Admin, yeah you're right. But, at least if the topic was split, those who continued to post their OPINIONS on the "useful info. only" topic would be exposed for their self-righteousness. I think that in and of itself would serve as a hindrance to unasked for debate. And if not, anyone who continued to post there and rant on about what they think is best for everybody's child, in a clearly stated "useful info. only" topic, would simply be dismissed as a blowhard gasbag and their posts simply ignored.

A circumcsion "opinion" topic is needed for those who want to discuss/debate/sermonize about it... which isn't the case for a whole bunch of us. But if it's not divided, no big whup. Honestly, it's not like it's a lot of time off of anybody's back to read through the posts. Quite frankly, it's just irritating to hear people trying to sneak a subliminal (and sometimes not so subliminal) message to you that you are a bad parent and are harming your child. Please.

Anyway, I think this is a great website and it's helped me out a ton. Hey, it was directly responsible for the doctor I chose for my son! Keep up the fantastic, fantastic work!


By Paulina Chen on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 7:53 am:

I CANNOT recommend Dr. Fujii at Tokyo Medical Clinic. My third son was circumcised by him. In the US, the procedure took no more than 5 minutes. At TMC, it took about 40 minutes, about 15-20 of it the doctor just leaves the baby there bleeding and screaming. The procedure must be antiquated!!!


By Joe Larsen on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 10:01 am:

I was circumcised as a baby and would like to file a lawsuit against my parents and the doctor. Can anyone recommend a good lawyer?


By Fil on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:32 am:

My wife and I are expecting our second son after we arrive in Japan. It is good to hear that it will be possible to arrange for his circumcision. My other son is circumcised and so am I along with all the males in our extended family. We believe that it is a good idea, medically, culturally, sexually, and aesthetically. We also think it is a shame that a small minority like the anticirc groups, who distort the values and statistics in regard to circumcision and who are not on any solid medical ground, especially about STDs and AIDs, can be so out of touch. We do not agree that parents have no right having their sons circumcised. And we certainly don't agree with the pressures they apply to young parents to follow their demands. Intolerant people who flood web sites with their foreskin fetish have no right to tell parents what to do in this personal and private matter.


By Fil on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 5:06 am:

P. S. I have reread all that has been written here. There are three profound mistakes.
(1) Circumcision is not a mutilation. It is simple plastic surgery.
(2) Female "circumcision" is a misnomer and really clitoralectomy. It is a dastardly mutilation of the external sexual organs of the female. It should be opposed everywhere. True female circumcision involves removing the skin over the clitoris. It is rarely performed.
(3) The normal development of the newly born child into an adolescent and adult is a very long process. It offers parents the respnsibility to make decisions for their children. Should the child be the only one to decide on his/her medical care, food, shelter, social, psychological, educational and religious needs, as well as travel, play and eventually first jobs? That is ludicrous. Parents, who of course make human mistakes, have not stolen the child's rights. One of the child's rights is to have parents make informed decisions for the well-being of the whole family.

P. S. I have reread all that has been written here. There are three profound mistakes.
(1) Circumcision is not a mutilation. It is simple plastic surgery.
(2) Female "circumcision" is a misnomer and really clitoralectomy. It is a dastardly mutilation of the external sexual organs of the female. It should be opposed everywhere. True female circumcision involves removing the skin over the clitoris. It is rarely performed.
(3) The normal development of the newly born child into an adolescent and adult is a very long process. It offers parents the respnsibility to make decisions for their children. Should the child be the only one to decide on his/her medical care, food, shelter, social, psychological, educational and religious needs, as well as travel, play and eventually first jobs? That is ludicrous. Parents, who of course make human mistakes, have not stolen the child's rights. One of the child's rights is to have parents make informed decisions for the well-being of the whole family.

note from Admin: I'm sure that if the person had wished to say "clitorectomy" she would have used the correct vocabulary. I think most educated people are aware of the practice of performing clitorectomies across a large section of Africa as well as the partial sewing shut what is left of the labia, frequently in the same cultures. But for those who are not, you can use the search term "Female Genital Mutilation" to find out more about it. Law enforcement agencies deal with it in the USA, Britain, etc. where it exists amongst the immigrant populations.


By Mikehood85 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:35 pm:

We had my son circumcised by Dr. Fuji at Tokyo Medical Clinic (right across from Tokyo Tower) in May. We were very happy with the care provided. As we were looking for a hospital to do the procedure, we found that many doctors didn't know how to do it, and even those who did were not using the gompco clamp method (safest, very little bleeding). I strongly recommend Dr. Fuji. And please read up on the gompco clamp method so that you are not surprised by anything you see, as one previous poster appears to have been. I'm happy to talk in more detail off list, if you wish. mikehood85@yahoo.com


By Fil on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:58 pm:

Mikehood85:
The gompco clamp method is widely used, especially in the USA. It was used for my circumcision (31 years ago) and for my son's circumcision both done in Tripler Medical Center in HI. I am glad that you found Dr. Fuji in Tokyo. We will be in contact with him soon. My wife is 5 months pregnant. We will ask that he use a local anesthetic. My son didn't cry. He was asleep throughout the procedure.


By Noahmail on Sunday, November 4, 2007 - 9:16 pm:

wow, hot topic. we just had a boy and want him circumcised. I think the hardest part will be driving into tokyo from saitama and back with the baby in the car.


By Harmony on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 2:39 am:

Read the research.
The real research not the profit over prudence stuff that fills every corner of the media.
Removing of body parts under the guise of medicine is profit over prudence.
Removing of babies by evisceration (c-section), episiotomies, removal of tonsils, foreskin, little toes to fit the shoe trend, binding of feet, breast implants, tummy tucks, reshaping ovoid eyes....you get the idea...is a huge profit industry.... this huge money maker has a lot of vested interests, who pay high paid lobbyists to invoke policy that begets all the hype and tripe about what is deemed necessary and best practice. We set up a culture of E#92;your body is not good enough the way it came. Fostering discontent is the best practice for profit.

Iatrogenesis is the number one killer in North America with over 700,000 deaths a year. Iatrogenesis (one of those blur the communication words...keep them from understanding....words) is latin for doctor induced death. You go in to the hospital or doctor's office for a fix for your ingrown toenail.... you pick up the super bug....infection sets in....it subdues your immune system....we exhaust all our antibiotics and a whole lot more money and procedures...and you languish with all sorts of ailments and pain...more treatments....more drugs....more infections....you succumb. Thats Iatrogenesis. You don't want to be caught dead in a hospital.

'Compound interest' is a name that comes to mind when I think of the harm that simple procedures do when exacerbated by poor practice BUT proper and profitable billing.
The pharmaceutical industry is the number two money centre of the globe. Why? Because they make a fortune from every infection and anomaly that damages psyche and physiology.

Circumcision is a status symbol. It started years ago. Most births were at home, safely and with better outcomes than currently. (We have one of the highest mortality rates of women giving birth than most countries in the world....11/100,000 vs. 1/100,000 in Ireland....Canada is not much better with 7/100,000).

But then the medical industry had to pay for all their new equipment and encouraged mothers to birth in hospitals and created such fear mongering through 'myth'information, they walked in willingly. It became as popular as the ages old practice of foot binding that used to dominate Japan culture. We all have our skeletons in the closet. That was more aesthetic driven than profit driven. It doesn't make it OK but it is a lot more benign than the harm we do for money.
So now that everyone was birthing in a hospital and having their babies circumcised (two for one) it was a mark of affluence. If you were not circumcised you were likely POOR, was the thinking. OR MORE ACCURATELY you had sentient and intelligent parents who made decisions based on fact and discernment not status, trend and what everyone one else was doing; or what ever the 'Merchants of Fear' were promoting at the time. Not being disfigured by bureaucracy made you appear less than progressive and or lacking in social and fiscal status.

The nations of the world which trust their own innate survival handbook; the one built into each and everyone's DNA are happy, healthy and harmonious.
They are distinguished by all having in common the fact that they
E#92; birth naturally,
E#92;nurse naturally
E#92;and hold their babies close
to their hearts.
They are the the Peaceful nations living in harmony with each other and the globe. The rest of us, kill our unborn, beat our kids and our wives and then go looking for a profit by beating up the world with our high technology and Stinger Missiles.

CIRCUMCISION is brutality at the worst possible stage.

What it does do well is undermine women's empowerment, self worth and belief in themselves. They know it is wrong but because they have been trained to trust doctors before themselves, they succumb to societal pressure devalue themselves and in in their depression, distance themselves from the high level bond with baby nature intends for our surviving and thriving.

This is a good look at the medical model of birth from the perspective of the unborn and newborn E#92;what we are doing to our babies through their eyes:
http://cuddlekarrier.com/WelcomeToTheWorld

Peace for all... before profit.


By Fil on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:02 am:

Please read my entry for August 16, 2007

1. No one has a right to demand that parental rights don't apply in the decision to have the infant son circumcised or not. It is a private decision between the physician and parents.

2. Psychologically, the anticirc people have a foreskin fetish.

3. New scientific evidence does indicate that circumcision is medically needed. STDs and AIDS
(female infected, male uncircumcised) are less likely to occur in circumcised men. Even China is now considering routine circumcision for infant boys.They have a massive HIV epidemic.

4. Cultural reasons for circumcision have been around for centuries. Justification has changed over the years. E.g., no one believes that circumcision prevents masturbation. It doesn't.

5. Total penis erotic feelings are the result of circumcision. Much of the inner foreskin is kept and the few nerves that find their way to the foreskin are activated in the shaft of the penis. Sex is enhanced. Staying power is increased.

6. Hygiene for the circumcised penis is simplified. A study in the UK indicated that washing under the foreskin was only practiced by about 25% of uncircumcised boys and men. So much for modern hygiene.

Please read the following on the Internet:
www.circinfo.com and circumcisioncenter.com


By Shikokumom on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 2:34 pm:

Our son is almost two and want to get him circumcised.
I'm waiting to hear back from Dr.Fuji for a consultation. Just wanted to get more voices from the group who've had it RECENTLY with Dr. Fuji.

Also, just wondering if there are any mohels in Tokyo that can do the proceedure using the Mogen clamp.


By Noahmail on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:11 pm:

Hello, We had our son circumcised by Dr. Fuji about two months ago when he was about 2 months old. He told us he prefers to do it at about 2 week old if possible. He said if the boy is beyond 3 months old he will get a general anesthesia, so I guess he would be put to sleep at two years old. In a way that seems easier because he won't be crying. But our experience was absolutely fine. I was a bit worried from all the horror stories I had read on-line from he anti-circumcision camp, (some people are against body piercing too) but it turned out fine. All the fuss about how bad it is, I read that maybe a kid could have emotional distress for life from it, but all this stuff is ridiculous. We did it it was fine, he cried for the ten minutes the doc left him in the room and he was fine by the time we left. We ended up taking some pictures and walked around tokyo tower after since it is right across the street.

They took off his clothes and dressed him in a little hospital outfit, then covered him with a blanket while waiting for the doctor. Then before the doc came in they strapped his arms and legs down to the little baby table. Then the doc came in put some kind of disenfectent brown stuff on him then the doc washed his hands. Then he gave him like 2 little shots in the pee pee, that was to numb it. :C not fun but he only cried for like five minutes, He told us we can wait in the waiting room if we like, so my wife waited in the waiting room and I stayed in the room. So he cried for a few minutes after getting the shot then I was talking to him standing at his face while the doctor started cutting or whatever he does. I was really surprised and happy that he stopped crying during this part of it. This assured me that he wasn't in pain. So then the doctor was finished and put some clamp (Gompo) on it and said it had to stay there for 10 minutes. I don't understand how the clamp works but I know there was some kind of clear fishing thread put through the skin somewhere (scary). So then he started crying again part way through the 10 minutes then my wife came back in the room. He cried because he was strapped down and couldnt move. He did get loud crying. Then the doc came and took off the clamp and put a bandage on it. Then we went to pay the 5 or 6 hundred dollars, then went across to the tower and then drove home to Saitama.

We were instructed to clean it every day for one week. We were supposed to do this by pulling the skin down as far as it goes and cleaning with a q-tip. I got confused about what looked like a little fold on the bottom side that didnt seem to pull down. I thought I had messed up by not pulling it down and then it was stuck but I was wrong, I called the doc he said to just leave the bottom side alone, I did leave it alone and it smoothed out on its own. So really we just needed to pull down the top side and clean that area. I believe the actual healing time is like a day or two but it is important to clean and pull the skin for about a week. After a few days it was fine. So Dr. Fuji said sometimes people bring him babies that were circumcised elsewhere that were not nice looking and he would fix it, so, i guess he is really good.

We are totally happy with it and he is too. I think its a cosmetic surgery and one reason I am glad we did it is because I know how circumcised penises work since I have one, I dont know about un-circumcised ones, like how to clean them,etc.


By Tesselator on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 11:09 pm:

I have four (4) sons and none of them are circumcised thank goodness! What a very odd and dangerous ritual. I am circumcised and all it's done for me is make me horny as hell all the time.

I've read in many many white-papers, sex journals, medical reports, and various books on the topic that there are many good reasons not to circumcise but the only thing anyone can say FOR circumcision is that it's a little easier to clean at shower time.

The practice doesn't even fit with the christian religions of today so why on Earth would people still be doing this? Why not just clip off your child's thumbs? It makes about as much sense!


By Harmony on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 11:41 pm:

Thanks Noahmail for your indepth look at circumcision.

I love your comment about child advocates: ...NUTS...

....your letter is so well written... I THANK YOU!...as a NUT case I couldn't have said it better...wink wink nod nod....your honest forthright description of the horror as seen through your eyes can only be magnified through the eyes, sentience, innocence and pain sensors of a baby.

Truth is always stranger than fiction.

Peace and wholeness to all.

PS....I wonder if circumcision doesn't set the trend for the massive amount of self mutilation we see now in piercing, rings and other punctures of all manner of body parts?


By Shikokumom on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:02 am:

Thanks for the info re: Dr. Fuji and the detailed procedure. I've seen it done on infants before and
it seems that they're more upset about being strapped down than the actual procedure itself.

I've spoken to him regarding our son's situation. They will have to put him under because he's older and that the procedure would take about 40 minutes.

I was really hoping for the Mogen clamp as it will cut the procedure down to 20 minutes or less with very little suturing but it seems that it isn't common here in Japan. The rabbi I contacted here in Tokyo referred me to Dr. Fuji.

There is a rabbi/doctor in Toronto who does the procedure using the Mogen clamp and we are considering getting the procedure done there when we go home.

FYI: Because general anesthesia is involved, the procedure will cost about 180,000\ with Dr. Fuji. We lived in the middle of nowhere Japan when our son was born and couldn't get it done when he was a few weeks old.


By Tesselator on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 2:26 am:

Skip the procedure and send me the Y180,000 where it will be used for something constructive - such as food.

Thanks,
Me.


By Fil on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 6:16 am:

fil

Thank you Noahmail for your complete and accurate discussion of your son's circumcision.

What people don't seem to understand is that circumcision has multiple values: prevention of disease and/or penile malfunction, hygiene simplified, staying power in sexual intercourse, better head, cultural/religious reasons, etc. Those who understand this need not be belittled.

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE CHILD TO BE IN PAIN ANY MORE. FOR THE INFANT AN AESTHETIC IN THE FORM OF A CREAM (Emla) IS RUBBED OVER THE PENIS. THEN A HALF HOUR LATER THE PROCEDURE IS BEGUN. OR A DEADENING SHOT TO THE MAIN PENIS NERVE TO NUMB THE PENIS. IF THE INFANT CRIES BEFOREHAND IT IS BECAUSE HE IS HUNGRY (NO FEEDING BEFORE SO THE INFANT WILL NOT CHOKE) AND/OR BECAUSE HE IS STRAPPED DOWN. AFTER A FEW MINUTES HE QUIETS DOWN AND MAY EVEN FALL ASLEEP.

Every parent should be sure that the surgeon use a local anesthetic. In the older baby be sure that the general anesthesia is monitored carefully.

I think that circumcision needs to be done. But it is a decision that the parent needs to make after talking to the family doctor, pediatrician, or, in the case of an older child or adolescent, a urologist.

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEMAND CIRCUMCISION OR UNCIRCUMCISION, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE REASONS FOR KEEPING A CHILD INTACT IS DISTORTED AND LARGELY UNTRUE. I HAVE INDICATING WHY THAT IS SO IN A BRIEF STATEMENT ABOVE.

Again thank you, Noahmail.


By Sandy on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 9:35 am:

I think that Y180,000 for this very minor cosmetic surgery is ludicrous. It's not complicated or difficult. Considering that you can still get a childbirth package in Tokyo for Y350,000 (with 7 days stay plus meals), a mere little circumcision for Y180,000 is nuts. The price obviously reflects the uniqueness of the procedure among the foreign community and the use of foreign health insurance coverage by people who use the Tokyo Medical Clinic. Any urologist should be able to do it.

According to a post above, Dr. Fuji charged Y57,000 in Aug. 2005. Now his price has more than trippled, in an ongoing stagnant economy where most people have even taken pay cuts.

I would ask around for prices. Just in this discussion here we've got:

"Tokyo Medical and Surgical called Dr. Fuji who has a lot of experience, according to my OB. The number there is: 03-3436-3028."

"Dr. Matsufuji of St. Luke's is one of the best. 03-3541-5151"

"Dr. Fuji at Tokyo Medical. The cost was 57,750yen" (August 2005 www.tmsc.jp)

Dr. Hertsel Simantov. He practises oriental medicine and performs circumcisions. He is at Shin Shin Itai Chiryoho Kenkyujo (Institute of Oriental Medicine) at 03-3465-7833 or 090-4009-8124. http://metropolis.co.jp/lifeinjapanarchive299/281/lifeinjapaninc.htm

I'm sure there are others, even if no one has found them yet. Again, I would try a urologist, because they do it for adult males who have problems so why not babies?


By Tesselator on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:55 pm:

Yup, I agree. But I don't think it's rare. I've had 3 kids here each at different hospitals and each time they asked if we wanted it done - I think it was cheap, less than Y10,000 (<$100).

As far as myth busting:

1) prevention of disease
Total BS! No doctor in their right mind (that was not selling the procedure) would claim such a lame thing.

2) prevention of penile malfunction,
Actually just the opposite is true. But this really is NOT much of an issue either way. More problems with disfunction are associated with circumcised than not.

3) hygiene simplified,
The only one that's true. And this will save an adult a total of 0.5 seconds in the shower or bath. It will save mommy about 5 seconds when washing her baby.


4) staying power in sexual intercourse,
Yeah because you're missing all the sensitive tissue that makes sex feel so good. So it's harder to orgasm. It's unnatural sex! In fact there has been studies done that connect the frustration of circumcised with the pron industry, sexual perversion and pedophilia!

5) better head,
Completely untrue! In fact again just the opposite is true! With more sensitive tissue (foreskin) present everything feels much better! That's even common sense! You don't even need all the studies that have been done to know that one!

6) cultural reasons,
There are no cultural reasons that I'm aware of. I coached P.E. in the USA for 3 years and there was about a 20% uncircumcised mix. Of all the razzing I head in those 3 years and MAN did I hear allot I never heard one kid mention that. So that's BS!

7) religious reasons,
Anyone that thinks circumcision is a religious thing has their head on backwards! Circumcision was "a token of the covenant" concluded with him by God. It is also when his name is changed from "Abram" to "Abraham" by God

The present form of circumcision was introduced in the Oral Torah - not even part of God's written word. The Abrahamic Covenant (of which circumcision is a symbol) has been described as "unconditional." This means that God's promises will be without qualification; that is, that the covenant promises will be completely fulfilled in spite of man's success or failure to keep whatever conditions or commandments may be contained in the covenant. Fulfillment is dependent upon God and not man. God intends to fulfill the terms of the covenant regardless of whether man fulfills his obligations. Abraham may have had some obligations to fulfill, but even if Abraham failed to fulfill those obligations, God's promises to him would still have been kept.

While enjoyment of the blessings of the covenant may be conditioned upon obedience, the fulfillment of the promises is not. Possession and ownership of the land was unconditional; however, the enjoyment of the land is conditional -- based on only one condition!

The sole condition for the Abrahamic Covenant was the command for Abraham to leave the land of his birth and to enter a new land. Once Abraham obeyed this one imperative, it rendered the covenant unconditional. In other words, whether or not God would make a covenant program with Abraham did depend upon Abraham's act of obedience in leaving the land, but when Abraham set out for the Land God would show him, the covenant was irrevocable and unconditional. Once Abraham obeyed, the fulfillment of the promise did not depend on Abraham's continued obedience, but on the character of our LORD.

And what this covenant all about anyway? What were the agreements?

The promises that were included in the covenant God made with Abraham:

a) A great nation was to come out of Abraham, namely, the nation of Israel (Genesis 12:2; 13:16; 15:5; 17:1-2, 7; 22:17b)

b) Abraham was promised a land -- specifically, the Land of Canaan (Genesis 12:1, 7; 13:14-15, 17; 15:17-21; 17:8). Later we learn that the privilege of Abraham's descendants, the Jewish people, for living in their land under God's blessing is conditioned upon their obedience (see, for example, Deuteronomy 28-29). But whether the Jews are physically residing inside or outside of the land, or whether anyone else may control it by conquest or any other means, the land belongs to the Jewish people by divine right.

c) Abraham himself was to be greatly blessed (12:2b; 15:6; 22:15-17a)

d) Abraham's name would be great (12:2c)

e) Abraham will be a blessing to others (12:2d)

f) Those who bless will be blessed (12:3a)

g) The one who curses will be cursed (12:3b) -- again and again this principle is operative in the prophets as they pronounce judgment on the nations surrounding Israel for the treatment of His chosen people.

h) In Abraham all the earth will ultimately be blessed, a promise of Gentile blessing (12:3c; 22:18)

i) Abraham would receive a son through his wife Sarah (15:1-4; 17:16-21)

j) His descendants would undergo the Egyptian bondage (15:13-14)

k) Other nations as well as Israel would come forth from Abraham (17:3-4, 6; the Arab states are some of these nations)

l) His name was to be changed from Abram to Abraham (17:5)
Sarai's name was to be changed to Sarah (17:15)

m) There was to be a token/sign of the covenant -- circumcision (17:9-14).



Those who DO NOT understand these things belittle themselves!


By Fil on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 7:12 am:

I stand by what I wrote. I am very tired about the anticirc demands. The groups have a foreskin fetish and refuse medical and scientific research and its conclusions. It includes the findings reported in The New England Journal of Medicine, the studies about prevention of AIDS/HIV in Canada, France, South Africa, and the USA. The UN has now called for clinics in the uncut areas of Africa. The USA is supporting this call for funds. The Bill Gates Foundation is contribuing. Condom use continues to be required after the circumcision. Millions of lives are worth saving.

Circumcision is a parental decision. I respect those decisions pro and con. We both have the right to express our opinions. We don't need to apply pressure on anyone. I am fully procircumcision and so are most parents in the USA. I agree with them.


By Tesselator on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:38 am:

I guess you would get tired of opposing truth with nothing but myths in hand. Anyone would. But like most Americans you will refuse to actually do any research one the issue and resort to calling names as you have above. The fact that the Nazi New World Order "foundation" set up by the Nazi concentration camp organizer IBM and their baby boy Billy Gates tells me directly what I want to know about what you accept as credible. I suppose you back family planning and social services and other adaptations of Nazi eugenics programs that were brought to the USA after WWII as well?

Circumcision is indeed a parental decision. And like good decisions requires an awareness of the issues and REAL information - not Nazi socialistic propaganda. LOL!! That lack of foreskin can prevent the US designed bio-weapon HIV/AIDS man, that's a good one! Keep drinking the kool-aid man...


By Aquintero on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 6:34 pm:

I am interested in a doctor who can simply perform frenectomy or at the very least, loosen the foreskin of a 4-year old child so that it becomes possible to perform hygiene easily. I do not want a circumsicion performed on my child.

Is there any specialist who can do this in the Tokyo or Yokohama area?


By Westsan on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 12:20 pm:

The only place I could find to do the circumcision under my circumstances (non-Jewish, born in a typical Japanese clinic) was the Tokyo Medical Clinic.

One thing to note for those planning to use Tokyo Medical Clinic is that the procedure differs some from the procedure in the US or the Jewish tradition. They use a local anesthesia. Some may prefer this but I did not prefer this option. I prefer the traditional method. Just for your consideration.


By Jacob on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 2:30 pm:

I just had a boy here in Tokyo and would like to know about a place to get him circumcised.

Since the places introduced earlier her is for almost 4 years ago, I am wondering if anyone has an update.

If you know any place where you have recently got your boy circumcised, let me know please.


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