Most posts I read are very specific about what people are looking for: "mom with baby looking for other moms with babies". While I understand that it is still the vast majority where the mother stays at home and raises the children while the father goes to work this is not always that way. There are fathers that are involved in child raising, too, and there are even some that stay at home while the mother goes back to work.

Me as a person who wants to respect the expressed will of others always wonder if that person has a particular reason why she specifically only looks for mothers or if it is just because there are so few dads who might come. I also find it a little bit weird if I always have to ask whether it was intentional that way or not.

I guess in general I hope to see that at some time it will become normal to write "looking for other parents" to indicate that someone is open to meet moms or dads.

Just my thoughts on this...

I agree with you Gerald!! My husband who stays at home has probably felt the same way a time or two when reading post. Thanks for saying it!

Gerald, I am sure that you, as well as other dads, would be more than welcome. I think the majority of stay at home moms assume that there are other moms in the same situation, hence the wording of the posts. I don't think the intention is to exclude anyone. Many women here have been asked - "who does your husband work for?" People automatically assume, particularly amongst the expat community, that the family was transferred here because of the husband's work. It just proves it is wrong to assume anything.

Interesting. Why do you think it is stronger in the expat community. I thought Japan is very conservative in who raises the children. I expected particularly Expats to be more open.

I think that these people are merely looking for "fellow" moms, which was the case when I was raising my child, so that they can say things like, "Hey, what do you do when your nipples hurt from breast-feeding?" or "Do you know that the beauty parlor over there does baby-sitting?". It's the same thing as saying, "Looking for fellow workers in the translation industry to share information".

Meanwhile, I used to belong to a group for "multi-cultural families" where a lot of husbands would participate on weekends, AND exchange info with "fellow dads".

I also know a Japanese male manga artist who was once popular among parents for his series called "Papa No Kokoro (Papa's feelings)". Being a freelance artist working at home and a social person, he willingly associated with his wife's mom friends even on weekday daytimes, and therefore became the bridge between dad readers and mom readers.

Gerald, I assume from your name that you are a male, and you are most welcome to be one of the few but important members to start calling out for "dads" and "parents", which was what all the members were doing in that multicultural family group.

PS: And also to start calling out for "moms" from a dad perspective.

Yuko, you mention exactly where I am sometimes reluctant to contact someone if the post explicitly mentions "moms". If someone is just looking for someone to exchange on breast-feeding or beauty-parlors then I am certainly the wrong person because I only have second-hand knowledge about breast-feeding and no knowledge about beauty-parlors. ;-)

But if it is about home-stay child-raising then I am just a "fellow" dad just like other "fellow" moms. Child-raising is about so much more than just breast-feeding I suppose. (But then it is the one thing you explicitly mentioned so it must be one big motiviation to seek out for other moms and thus here I am useless again...)

I know that there are only very few dads out their that do the child-raising while the moms have full-time jobs. So besides the interest to start a group of dads in the same situation, as there are so few full-time dads it is still mostly mothers to meet and share the experience.

The question just is always: where are you welcome and where not?

Hi Gerald,

Where are you welcome: Almost any "group" rather than to contact an indivisual. Of course you have to ask first, but unless they have very special reasons, I'm sure they will welcome you.

Where not: If a poster is looking for "one" mom friend, and you are the only guy who shows up, she may not be able to get what she wants. But if she already has a friend to talk about breasts, and you come in and cannot share your breast experience but are okay with asking questions about it or can throw in a different fun topic, than I don't think there will be a big problem.

As I mentioned earlier, the issue is more about you rather than the moms. I think a lot of men will feel uncomfortable if he is the only dad in a group full of moms. But if you're one of those many wonderful fathers who can join in a conversation you're not familiar with, then everybody will be okay, I think. Actually, I've learned through my experieces that it's really fun to talk with gentlemen who knows a lot about raising a child. Usually, the one at home is the only one you've got.

I wonder what other moms (or even dads) think about it.

Yuko, sorry but maybe we misunderstand. I know that most groups mostly consist of moms and that I am very lucky if I meet some other full-time dad there. I know that this is just the way it is and there is little I can change about that. I am aware that it will be uncomfortable for me and the other moms as well in the beginning. I know that I will have to ask at most places if it is O.K. if I come. I know that maybe even some mothers will look sceptical on how I handle our daughter.

All I was trying to do was to make people more aware that it is not always moms that raise their children the whole day. That there are dads out there, too, even if they are still very rare. I more try to broaden people's mind a little, I guess.

This comes out of my frustration during the last couple of months whenever it is about caring about babies or child-raising. Most baby books you can get are only written for moms. Often they mention that it would be good if fathers would be involved but that's it. But if you look closely at the contents of the book then you notice that 90% of the book is about things other then breast-feeding and thus are for interest for moms and dads. But then most books say something like: there is a "magical" connection between the newborn and the mother and due to this the father is almost irrelevant during the first year of the baby because all that baby wants and needs is his/her mother.

Or like for the 1-month checkup when the nurse suggested to return for a 2-month checkup because the father stays at home and the mother will go back to work just to make sure that the baby thrives.

These posts are just a little part of it and very understandable compared to the above examples.

Thing is: when "we" got pregnent I knew the situation we would have and I did not really worry about it. But then with all those frustrations doubts came if it was possible at all, if it was good for the baby or not. I knew from a few people that it would but still if every book, every doctor and midwife tell you differently and most people do it differently you just get doubts.

Now, after three months and many discussions at other places, too, I start to feel that the reason why so few fathers get really involved with their baby in the first year or two and why so few fathers dare to take the step to go on leave from the job and take care of the baby is because everybody and everything around them just tells them that it won't work. I start to feel that this discourages many men right from the start. I often read from men that write something like "due to the pregnancy and giving birth the mother is totally bonded with the baby while for men it starts after birth or even later after 6 months or so, therefore there is little reason why I should get involved and there is no reason why I should take leave because the baby only wants the mother anyway". But now I know that this magical "bond" (beyond the breast-feeding certainly) does not really exist. It is more about how much you get involved and how much time you spent with your baby. I do some things differently from my wife. Not better or worse just differently. And our baby seems to enjoy it anyway.

So, bottom line, my intension was not to critize. It was just to raise awareness that there are dads out there that would easily match the "profile" of a message if it wasn't explicitly written. Particularly for posts in forums like this it is understandable that people simply write from their experience and as there are usually only moms involved they simply write "mom". I hope that someday it will say "parent". And I hope that this will be another little tiny step for other fathers-to-be and fathers to get more encouragement.

And, yes, I know it is very idealistic... ;-)

hi Gerald
I've been auditing with interest this discussion and have a story to tell that might help. 10 years or so back, an Australian friend of mine, married to a Japanese man, gave birth to a baby girl. Her husband worked for major car company and he decided to take advantage of a company benefit of 1 year paternity leave. Right after the baby was born, he stopped work to look after his daughter while my friend went to work. At the time, this was quite unheard of and I remember being quite impressed on two fronts. First, that the leave existed and second, that the husband was willing to take the leave, despite incredible negative pressure from work colleagues, family and the world at large. It was also a real pleasure to watch the bond grow between father and daughter during that year.

Its difficult to fight a system where the majority rules but I thought that this story might give you some inspiration.

You may be a minority but you represent a positive growth in child-care awareness. My husband shares your view of child-care and bonding. I think you were right to post a wake-up call to this board. I might venture that many fathers who are involved in child-care out there may feel left out on this board. I have, in fact, recommended this board to fathers but they've commented that they felt the board is for mainly for women.

Is it? Your post has made me more conscious of what I'm posting, thanks.
cheers, anne

Hello, TGerald,
I agree whole-heartedly with you. I was in the first grade in 1971. That year, my father, who worked for an oil company as a draftsman was laid off. He stayed home while my mother, an elementary school teacher went to work. I remember vividly running home and finding him in the yard raking when I ran home and could tell him that I had learned to tell time!
I had had baby sitters prior to that, and the next years, I was a latch-key kid. It would have been equally special had my mother been home. But, it was a good time to spend with him.
It broke my heart to learn later, that my friends did not have fathers at all growing up. Some who did were better off without them!! Coming to Japan, I realized that girls often speak negatively of their fathers.
You are absolutely right that there is a dry well of books for fathers. My children and I wrote a book a few years ago because I wanted to show the image of my father I have, one who is kind and present without handing out money, one who has time to notice the little things in life, one who does not ask only about homework.
Please send me your address off line and I will send you a little book.
I stopped attending mom and child clubs because they often tended to become competitive, not all, but in some cases. I believe this is due in part, to the emphasis on single-parenting within the home, despite having a spouse available.
Studies show that cildren do benefit from having fathers. They are more than a check book.
Best to you!!!
Amy

Hi Gerald,

I thought I understood you and still do, and that's why I mentioned the family group and father friend, but maybe not if you say so.

Anyway, I do agree with the bond theory too. At the same time, I can understand that book makers make books that sell. If they find out that there are more fathers willing to pay money for father's topics, they will make books accordingly. Readers need to speak up like you to let them know you exist.

At least, what the public health center used to call "Mother's class (hahaoya gakkyu)" has changed its name to "Parents' class (ryoshin gakkyu)" several years ago. Keep it up!

Hiya Gerald,
My name is Sammy .Hope you guys don't mind me "popping" in?My husband is Japanese.We split the childcare of our twins 50/50.Bit like a tag team?I work,he looks after the kids & vice versa.He's been a hands on Dad from the beginning much to his very traditional family's disbelief!!I also belong to an online UK Twinsclub where there are a lot of SAHDs...........Yes,just like the acronym SAHM( Stay At Home Mum) in this politically correct era we also have SAHMD to take into account all those "Stay At Home Dads" who maybe are in the minority at the moment but ever growing.........Nobody blinks an eye or feels it's strange when they post and complain about a hard day they've had with screaming kids who won't eat or potty training.It's just the norm.I have a lot of respect for them as I do other mothers & feel that often,a male perspective can be just what is needed.My husband deals with stuff differently than I do with often a lot more successful results!!! One of my close friends in Britain is a very proud SAHD to triplets whilst his wife works full time.He often goes to the pub in the evening & whilst his friends complain about stupid managers,he has a moan about the latest nappies or bum wipes!!!


My husband takes the twins to the local Jidoukans & it used to cause quite a stir...especially with him being Japanese.One lady actually offered her condolenses as she thought I had died...I mean why else would a Japanese guy be taking his kids to the local playrooms??!!!

As for the breast feeding bit well...my husband knows quite a bit about sore nipples etc but it isn't the all of parenting!!

I have a circle of friends & we get together quite a lot at each other's houses.Organise picnics in parks,Shinjuku among many.You would be very welcome to join us if you live in the area.On the 17th of March I've organised a lunch party in Yoyogi (Oedo Line,Yamanote Line) at a mums/dads cafe called Little Ones.It's a fabulous place to sit whilst your kids play safely & have a talk about life etc with a few friends.If you'd like to join just mail me personally.We'd love to see you.

Hugs!!


Sammy Aso

Oops. It took a while to answer. Our daughter just knows too well how to keep her parents busy... ;-)

Anne, thank you for the story. It is quite extraordinary if you consider that he is Japanese. I can imagine that it is very hard here in Japan for a Japanese father to take leave.

My first impression of this board was also that it is mainly for mothers. I cannot really say what it is except what I wrote before that many messages are from mothers for other mothers although it is not obvious why someone is only looking for mothers. It makes a little bit the impression of a mother's club. And, certainly, there is no corner for the fathers.

Sammy, I would love to come to your lunch party. Little Ones is just two stops away from where we live, though I haven't made it there yet. Just send me an email. My address is in my profile.

Can anyone tell me how to get to Little Ones Cafe in Yoyogi, I have tried the blog that was posted on an earlier message but it is no longer working

thanks

Gerald,

Full dues to you for raising the issue of what is normally expected from dads in Japan. I've also realized, ever since my wife got pregnant--never "we" in our household because of the labour pains involved ;-)--that most everything in print and on the 'net seems geared towards moms. I've done so much gender flipping while reading parenting books and websites that I sometimes thought I was preparing to be another mom. Your posting concerning attitudes related to stay-at-home dads reminded me so much of a couple of stories I read last year:
- "Joining the SaHMs Club" by Kristopher Kaiyala for his The Stay at Home Dad column for MSN
- "Stay-at-home dads want more than laughs: Movies and books still portray full-time fathers as bumbling buffoons, but that's not the whole story" by Marilyn Gardner for the Christian Science Monitor

Though I'm not lucky enough to be an SaHD, I feel it's a tough job that can be made doubly so by, in my experience, some women's attitudes (dare I say Japanese women?) that apparently come with limits on the husband's role in child-rearing. Maybe it's an extension of wives' domination of household affairs here. I don't know. I'm afraid to generalize this kind of stuff. What I do know is that I feel like I'm expected to play with my daughter and leave other aspects of parenting under the control of my wife, that is, she stays at home so child-rearing is her domain. Input is neither appreciated nor accepted. (An isolated case--only in our home? I don't think so. It's an overarching attitude among mothers and grandmothers that I come in contact with in our neighbourhood in Tokyo.) I'm allowed to "get away" with more because I'm a foreigner, but there still seems to be something like "oh, you're just a papa" floating in the air around my wife and her friends with kids of their own. Maybe it's "mere" condescension--poo-pooing and tut-tutting my opinions because I'm not the primary caregiver? I can't put my finger on it, but ever since my daughter was born, some of the reactions to my participation in raising her have made me feel like I'm overstepping my bounds as a dad in Japan. And this makes me wonder whether the *Papa no Kokoro* series that Yuko Kubota mentioned is popular because he is a trailblazer offering a unique perspective to many women or because his stories are oddly amusing (maybe for both those reasons). If memory serves, it inspired a few documentary-style programs on TV last year.

On the other hand, being men may be advantageous for SaHDs in Japan, allowing them to escape some of the peer pressures associated with what is normally a mother's domain, which seems to be an intense place with cliques formed, snubs made and women ostracised based on minor likes or dislikes--according to reports about the murders of preschoolers last month in Shiga prefecture and six years ago in Tokyo.

Elizabeth - little ones cafe is closing at the end of this month. Directions from Yoyogi station, if you exit at the big corner exit, cross the road with the koban on your left and go straight down with yoyogi seminar on your right, little ones is at the end of this road, I will post their phone number soon so you can call if you need more directions.

Gerald - walkable from sangubashi station too, about 8 minutes, see you on the 17th :)

Hello, Steve,
No, it's not "just you." Actually, ironically, I've experienced a similar feeling while being a SaHM with my two children around the "majority" mothers. I have asked about "what I should do" in some cases and have been told, "Oh, don't worry, the mothers will do it." The fact that I was ALSO a mother seemed to be less than apparent. It was perhaps because they thought I was different or that I did not know how to do some things and they were simply too busy to teach me because mothers are SUPPOSED to already know how to do certaing things. I've been told when a children's group had to make yakisoba and I got an available knife, a head of cabbage and a cutting board, "Oh, I didn't know you know HOW to use a cutting board."
I think raising children here is viewed as a rites of passage, a competitive sport and I have decided just not to play that game after years of being forced to. My husband, has on various occasions taken roles that were traditionally for mothers. He took our daughter to ballet for years. He was always well-received and that was fine for me and good for their relationship. But, I noticed that in those situations, he got put on a pedestal and I, by default, was labeled as "useless" or "incompetent" and not told about important things.
It's like when he serves tea to my guests. A nice thing to do, but does not warrant the "oohs" and "awes" it gets. He has guests, I make tea, it gets "Oh, even though you are a foreigner, you can make tea."
The other day, I went out to shovel the street in front of our area. It was beyond the boundaries of "group shoveling area" and all had gone home. But, patches of snow freeze and I enjoy the
solitude of being in the snow and leisurely removing it. One middle-aged housewife saw me, came over to chat and before I knew it, she had literally taken my shovel and was shovelling really fast. I told her that I wanted to enjoy the work and asked her to give my shovel back! She refused and continued on!! Really, not making this up!
I demanded my shovel be returned, with a smile, but she replied, "Someone of your upbringing should not be shoveling!"
There are other politics in the world of snow shoveling but that is a different topic. I am saying that the roles in this society are written in granite and raising children is part of the identity of a woman, and while a wife might like her husband to be more involved, it automatically lowers her status apparently.
My father helped my mother wash and fold laundry in a laundromat in Shikoku. That was 20+ years ago and the people STILL talk about it!
When I hear women complain that their husbands do not help, I ask, "Do you let him?" One woman told me that her dream was "To spend the entire day in her pajamas and do nothing." Dare I mention that her 2 "children" are in high school and university and she works full time outside the home?
Good luck to all parents of all children in all situations.
It should not be a competitive sport with comparisons of educational styles, grades, language skills and so on. I have also witnessed that kind of thing among the foreign community as well. Not always, but have experienced this where children are viewed as a status symbol instead of the gifts to us they are.

Jelland
Is Little Ones closing down to do the "knock down and rebuild"?
They spoke of it when I was last there but that was about a year ago.
If so, do you know when they expect to re-open?
Thanks
Cathy

Hi

They aren't going to reopen :(
They are doing renovations to turn the building into an apartment block for seniors and the cafe area will become a culture room for tea ceremony I think

I must admit that I haven't met many other moms or dads, yet, Japanese nor international. I guess Japan is not so much different from other countries although it seems to me that things are still are more traditional. I won't comment if this is good or bad.

I know from hear say that competition between full-time mothers in Germany is fierce, too. Which baby does what first. Which one is the most clever one. I guess it is in the nature of many people that they tend to compare and they don't like to be second or third.

It is the same for the expectation what a mother should do. My wife has been asked several times why she would have a baby if she planned to return to work just after maternity leave of 8 weeks. Why would she not want to enjoy her baby? Noone either came close to think about whether the father would like to enjoy the baby, too, or not.

As is the tendency of many mothers to wish for more involvement of the father and at the same time will only let them do something under supervision and personal instruction. I don't know what is so hard about changing diapers and even mothers had to learn it in the beginning.

So I guess it is similar everywhere...

For my wife and me the choice was clear: she had the job and I came with her to Japan. If she wanted to go on an extended leave we would have to leave the country, I would have to find a job somewhere very quickly. Plus it probably would have been less money because the expat salary is excellent.

While the Little One's blog is empty I found the map on google which is still available:

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200412/20/36/a0034736_1972752.jpg

Dear Gerald,
As the admin of this site, I am totally, all for more male participation. I am guilty of assuming that the men don't post because they are too "male" for this kind of networking. They can't really make any money here, and they have to be diplomatic when they write, so it's too much effort, and they just don't bother. (Pretty sexist of me... duh!) But the guys actually perpetuate this stereotype. I get a far greater number of requests from men to be unsubscribed than women, when we get a wave of spam posts, for example.

But the only person who has volunteered to help administer these discussions is... a MAN! For which I am really grateful (the help). His name is Scott if you want to send him thanks too. (By the way, I'm still looking for solutions to fixing the cgi script. It's just that I've got NO extra energy in the winter, and now, I have days of manic productivity when the weather is nice dotted with days of complete utter slothfulness when it gets cold again and rains all day).

I also want to discuss this magical mother/child bond "phenomenon" as per my experience. I did not feel complete and utter love for my baby right after it was born. I felt a huge range of feelings, but instant total unquestioned dedication was not one of them. I had very few illusions. When she latched on to my teat and the pain when down into my toenail sockets, I clenched my teeth and felt my eyes roll into the back of my head. On the other hand, I lay awake staring at her the whole night after her birth (in spite of comprehensive fatique). It was basically the start of an adventure and held my rapt attention. I never got all romantic and mushy about the baby raising thing, until much later, like around 4 years later. By then it was clear that I had developed all those feelings of total devotion that seemed to be missing right at the start. I really am not convinced that I'm the only mother like this. She was my first and is my only child. Maybe if I'd gone and had another one, things might have kicked in faster the second time around.

Here's the really odd bit. Even though I did not feel inexorably in love with my baby at the beginning (we grew together over time is how I see it), I think if anyone had tried to take her from me I would have killed to prevent it. I have no good word in English to describe that. Maybe I was out of touch with my real feelings and didn't know that I was feeling "love" or some kind of "magic bond" all along. But given my experience, there is no doubt in my mind that anyone living day in and day out with a little helpless being and having made the commitment to take care of it, no matter what the cost, would develop the same deep bond. I think that's what makes adoption of a baby so very plausible. And I really deeply wish that my kid's Dad had taken an interest in her too. I feel that it is not only a loss for her but also for him.

If [most] women and men assume that women are doing most of the child rearing, then it's because that's what they observe around them, and therefore it is probably true to a large extent. But I really don't think it SHOULD be that way at all! What's interesting is that here in Japan, in the statute language they have generally subtituted "parent" in place of "mother" in the welfare regulations and manuals. Hobo-san refers to a woman (childcaregiver at a nursery). They made a new word that de-genders Hobo-san a few years back. Even so, the actual parental leave advocated by the government is still largely un-implemented in the workplace. I figure this is more due to the fact that it is UNPAID leave rather than that it is offered to men. I would put money on it, that if the leave were PAID leave, people would be lining up for it. Am I being too cynical? If you look at the examples quoted above, it's clear that economics is a variable in the equation.

The truth is that men still make more money then women most of the time, and that if there's a choice between Mom working for X and Dad staying home, or Dad working for X+Y and Mom staying home, most couples will choose the second option. You have to be emancipated from materialism among other things to choose alternatively.
[stirring up the pot]

This week I talked to the owner of a curry place where I go occasionally with our baby girl in the sling. In our conversation (if you can call it that with my limited Japanese and his limited English skills ;-) he was very surprised that I would take care of the baby during the day on weekdays. He thought that that was not possible because babys are always so clingy to her mother.

I think thoughts like that make it hard to try something different from what everybody else does around you. If you see it around you, hear it from others, read it in books how would you know that it actually can be different and work very well? Or like most of the mothers in the play hall said that their husbands would never stay at home. I don't think that this is presented as a real option here in Japan and in many other places, too.

But changes only come gradually. At the moment, this is the way it is and you can only change very small things or take small steps towards a better way.

Japan is still very old-fashioned in respect to the gender roles. My wife wrote an article and did some research on SAHD in Germany and in Japan. In Japan it is I think 0,5% of men that take leave (I am not sure what the amount of time was that was required to be considered in that number) while in Germany it is 5%. It is not much.

As far as I understand, here in Japan women do not only get paid less but they are also employed in different career tracks than men which basically limits their opportunity. I think one of the "reasons" behind that is that women eventuelly will have children and drop out because they have to take care of the child. So maybe if there were much more man taking leave this would change, too...

From next year in Germany there will be a new kind of child leave money paid by the state. You basically get 66% of your net income paid while you are on child leave. You get this for up to 12 months. You can split this time between mother and father (for instance, first 6 months the mother, the next 6 months the father) or I think they can even take it together (for instance mother and father can take 6 months leave). 2 months of these 12 months remain reserved for mother and father, i.e. if the father does not take leave at all, the mother can take 10 months of this leave. Well, we will see if this has some effect on how many men will take leave...

Maybe someday, they will even make a mandatory maternity leave for men for the time before and after birth. In Germany you have 6 weeks before due date and 8 weeks after birth. Women are not even allowed to work in the 8 weeks after birth. It is with full net monthly salary. My wife and I found these 8 weeks together extremely valuable for us both to adjust to our new life with a newborn. What would you think if this maternity leave was mandatory for men, too, and they had to stay at home? ;-)

Well, I think that the GNP would drop. And also that there would be a lot of happier parents with happier kids and a few less dinners with beef and the cable TV might have to go!
It's actually really interesting that Western European nations are opting more and more for lifestyle changes that benefit people in immaterial ways. Just recently there was an article in Newsweek (By Fareed Zakaria Feb. 20, 2006 issue) about how the per capita income in Europe is actually falling and lower than in the USA. But people don't seem too bothered by their relative "poverty". They seem to still have enough to meet their needs. This fits in with my own observations that most of us participating in these discussions are in the top 10%- 15% of the world materialistically. And it doesn't make us all that much more content or happier. My daughter is bombarded with data every day. It is increasingly difficult for me to control her environment. Living in the big city offers the advantages of freedom of movement and access to resources, but also the disadvantages of constant exposure to the surrounding "culture".
She's totally absorbing the gender "rules" here, because there is very little to counter them. This includes neglecting possible friendships with boys. And then she's got the Japanese rules mixed together with the American "rules" coming from teen pop movies such as Lizzie McGuire. When the conversation allows (sometimes initiated by me;-) I question the assumptions. I want her to consider options. Of course I'm making things more difficult for her in the future. But I figure that it's preferable to being a sheep or drone.

Hi Gerald,

I think it was you who was calling for playmates for kids a while ago? I'm not sure where you are, but my email is willheminaw@hotmail.com if you ever want to check out a playgroup that I take my son to. We're on the Tozai line. However, as variety is the spice of life, I'd be willing to take an adventure somewhere, a museum or whatever one day if you are interested.

On the discussion of "Mums" I agree with you. In Australia, I would never say 'Mums", and still say 'parents' (caregiver might be getting a tad PC) "Mums" assumes that only women take care of the children, and assuming makes an ass out of u and me (ha ha). When I took my son to playgroup in Oz there were always fathers there as well. In fact, an old friend of mine used to come along with his twin girls and the discussions/debates/silly laughs were some of the best times I had at a playgroup EVER!

So, yes, I noticed the whole "Mummy" thing big time when I first came here, and it positively gets on my goat.

My husband is Japanese, and although he has female friends, he positively freaks at the thought of being alone in a rooms with any more than two women. I have loads of male friends in Australia that I miss, and frankly, as much as I love my new friends here, I get tired of the lack of male friendship - in fact, I'd hazard a guess and say that we'd all go quite potty if we were to only have freindships with our own gender.

Anyway, I hope you find some cool people to hang out with and don't take no shit from no-one! As they say : ) If you ever want to hang out, feel free to email.

Willie : )